近期读书报告

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Jun
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近期读书报告

Post by Jun » 2006-11-13 13:57

好久没报告了。我老人家最近在看HBO剧集Rome,所以看书不多。题外话:Rome真是越来越好看啊,开头几集我还没觉得怎么样,越快到第一季的结尾越精彩!不过挺血腥的,而且很多裸体,很多露骨的床戏,纯洁有道德的观众慎入。

1. Hard Revolution (George Pelecanos)

打算品尝本地作家George Pelecanos的小说已经很久了,见不少人推荐过。前阵子还在National Book Festival上听过他的发言,似乎自己的经历就是个硬汉派的故事。他年轻的时候干过很多蓝领体力活,例如餐馆打工啦,搬运工啦,生活题材源泉是大大的。他自称最早只想讲一个故事,用笔在普通的拍纸簿上一字一句地写下来,也没有agent,寄到纽约一家出版社。一年后,人家来信说有兴趣出版他的书。后来发生的就是历史了。他出版了不少犯罪小说,都是以DC附近为背景的,加历史变迁和社会动荡,评论颇好。后来他加入HBO剧集The Wire的编剧和制作,此剧也颇收好评。

我查了一下,Pelecanos开始的几本书的确是以自己熟悉的希腊裔人物为主角的,后来(拍The Wire后?)才开始写黑人主角。这一本讲的主要是黑人警察Derek Strange在六十年代的DC种族动乱中长大成男子汉的故事。不久前刚读完Walter Mosley写的LA racial riots,也是民权运动时期大时代中的一幅画。Pelecanos的DC racial riots是记录同时代的另一片拼图。开头我还疑心重重:一个白人男作家能真实地从内部反应表达历来有口难言的黑人视角吗?看进去越多,就渐渐地忘记了作者的白人身份,他大概是从小在种族混居的劳动人民的社区长大,认识不少黑人居民和孩子;要么就是他做了非常深入细致的调查。他的叙述口吻和角度非常可信--至少,我这个非黑非白的读者觉得很可信。到书的后半部分racial riot发生的时候,他插进一句:我们忍得太久了,爆发出来也是难以避免的。简直跟Mosley在小红一书里的口气一模一样。

Pelecanos 自己说他不写serial killers,不写侦探推理式的套路。我看了才明白,你别期待悬疑派的Who-done-it 类型。他的小说几乎可以算是严肃文学的套路,注重research,时代背景,社会分析,人物描绘,阶级和种族的冲突矛盾,等等,只不过里面有警察,侦探之类的人物和凶杀的情节,其实连police procedural的类型都不能算,一点噱头也没有。他的风格非常硬汉,非常白描,有时近似严酷,绝少粉饰或道德鼓吹,基本上是自然主义,现实主义的手法,极少(并非没有)透露自己的立场。好人也有不可爱的地方,例如男主角在此书里(年轻时)就坦承花心的倾向,虽然爱上一个女孩子,却不肯承诺。神经脆弱的纯情女读者大概不适合读这种书。

书中的高潮是Martin Luther King,Jr.被暗杀事件而诱发的DC种族暴动。这是我读到过的最生动的对当时社会状况的描写(当然我也没读过多少)。揉和历史背景和虚构情节的手法并不新奇,不过他传递的那种群众的心理和气氛相当真实,读者能感受到当时人们的失望和无奈,愤怒和不甘,以及躁动的期待--"他们再不能对我们视而不见。"

我喜欢有几多呢?现在还难说,待我再看两本后再来报告。读者下口小心哦,他是够硬的,或许会硌了你的牙。

2. Irrational Exuberance (Robert Shiller)

经好友推荐读这本有名的经济书,号称预测了几年前科技股票泡沫破裂的,去(前?)年出版第二版时又预测了房地产泡沫的破裂。可让我费了老大力气才囫囵吞枣连跳带跑夹生地看完了。哇塞,可真是狠哪,哗啦哗啦批倒一大片权威人士和说法,包括Alan Greenspan, Suze Orman, 以及无数投资的conventional wisdom。

这本书的基础是近几年兴起的投资心理学。正统的经济学中心理论是Efficient Market,坚持大多数股票的价格是合理的,因为公司企业的情况是公开的(除非是Enron Worldcom这种)大家都能得到的资料,所以股票的价格是建立在公平的买卖上受市场(对股票的)供求的调节。我也不懂,反正似乎是这么回事,说错了不负责。在这本书里,Shiller把market efficiency的理论给扯得七零八碎。他的论点是股票的价格有很多irrational elements,在一个非理性的市场里可能有大量虚撑起来的水份,造成越吹越大的泡泡。但是虚撑起来的泡泡是不稳定的,终究会破裂。

Shiller的太太是临床心理学家,他对九十年代末的科技股票泡沫的分析主要在于投资人群如何被狂热的心理卷入,不管多虚幻的business model,只要跟网络生意搭上界就有大量的资本盲目地投进去。另外媒体人云亦云的起哄和投资顾问的公开说法对这股不理智的浪潮起了推波助澜的作用。你或许会说,这有什么新奇的,这种马后炮这两年听的耳朵都生茧。可别忘了,此书一版出于2000年,那时候科技股还炒得如火如荼呢。二版出来的时候东西岸的房地产只升不降,大家都拼了老命借ARM贷款,interest-only贷款买半百万到上百万的房子。

我完全没有经济学的基础,看得我无比吃力,拿去跟推荐的朋友抱怨,人家说呸我自己还在啃呢。半懂不懂的,也看得我心惊胆寒。例如,买房是投资良路吗?否!Shiller按照不完全的历史数据(完全的数据不存在)粗略地估计,从大萧条时代(30年)到现在,如果算进通货膨胀,美国全国的房价平均增长是1%。股票是长期投资的最佳选择吗?未必。虽然几乎所有的投资忠告都说股票的三十年回报率按照历史数据超过债倦和存款,但是如果你碰上了持续的熊年而非持续的牛年,只有一年一年地亏下去,例如73年至82年将近十年股票指数基本没涨,而通胀却达到两位数,谁也不敢说你十年之内都不需要等钱用,拿出来就有赔无赚。买股票就不如把钱扔存款里了。

Shiller 并且把Alan Greenspan拉出来不带脏字地批了一通,指责他在90年代末虚撑起来的牛市时候拒不调高利率,直到泡泡实在撑不下去了才开始动用利率手段,但已经太晚了,虽然Irrational Exuberance是Greenspan自己的词儿,他却袖手旁观直到大批大批的小投资人都被套牢摔惨。他这么一说,让我背上开始出冷汗。联邦储备局的利率上下对股市和利率都有至少短期的影响,而持续的调整可以维持几年的影响。过去的五六年之内,房地产价格的飙升,许多人炒卖赚了大钱,更多的劳工阶层被挤到买不起住房的地步,只好住到离工作很远的郊区,或者借合法的高利贷买房,必须承认,这个潮流是拜持续低利率所赐。现在利率不涨不行了,你看着吧,又会有大把劳动人民交不起高利贷,房子又脱不了手,等着银行收回呢。谁能保证联储局的人不是跟CNBC上叫人只买不卖的所谓分析家一样出于私心,拿人民大众的血汗钱维持经济繁荣的一片大好形势?Why not? 在国会山上给campaign contribution最多的一伙人是哪一路?全国房地产经济人协会是数一数二的。中国移民最信仰的美国梦,其实也就是人家刮你钱财的手段。

基本上这本书颠覆了许多灌输给小投资人的宗旨:股票比其他渠道回报高,buy and hold for a long time,买房是项好投资,跌下去的股票市场一两年内准会回升。。。可是,你要想靠这本书发财(书店里到处都是宣称教人发财的投资宝经)就得失望了。Shiller并没有教人发财的捷径。我想,其实他也知道,如果你是发财阶层的,自然会财源滚滚,手里有它几百万的闲钱,还怕没有能人帮你大把赚进来更多?这些高回报又是从哪儿来的呢?还不是大量的suckers,以为自己每天看看CNBC,上上网,就能发财的业余小投资人。他对普通读者的忠告除了采取相对保守的投资策略和diversify,就是你狠命存钱吧。不过他也说了,连政府都是今日花明日的钱,升斗小民还有什么指路明灯?他同时建议联邦储备采取比较紧缩的利率政策控制市场非理性地膨胀,我心说要政府把多数劳动人民的利益放在special interest之前,等到猴年马月吧。

总之,这本书是悲观主义态度的,鼓吹的是保守的投资哲学。我自然没有评论的资格,也无法评判其可信任程度,不过科技股的泡泡是破掉了,房地产的泡泡也在破裂的过程中,虽然Ben Bernancki大叔似乎还撑着不调高利率呢。大家自己看着办吧。

3. The Lincoln Lawyer (Michael Connelly)

这本可比前一本我看的Harry Bosch的书好看多了,毕竟是新系列的开篇哪。我是电视剧集Law and Order的长期迷(现在不看了),这本小说跟L&O的法庭那一半故事颇有类似的地方,(电视上的法庭和律师剧集没几个能看的,我最痛恨David E. Kelly的胡说八道。)不过是从criminal defense lawyer的角度来写的,比作者的其他以警察和私家侦探的系列有新意,同时保留了有些gritty的风格,有缺点的人物,和强烈的阳刚气质。一种扑面而来的真实感是许多悬疑小说缺乏的。情节本身并不绕来绕去故弄悬虚,重点在于描绘各色比较底层的刑事案件们和被告们,提供一幅身在其中热气腾腾的画面来描述刑事法庭里的进进出出,而不是高高在上的中产阶级看看报纸的干巴巴的认识。对于良民心目中高高捧起的The Justice System揭露给你看--杀人多次的黑帮头子可以搞到十年刑期,七年就假释的plea bargain,而贩卖大麻抓多几次的小喽喽如果没有供出大鱼的资本可能被判二十五年。所谓的justice, fairness,法律的公正和平等,都是糊弄人的漂亮话,倒霉的都是小鱼小虾,在社会的哪一层都是这样。

小说的主角是一个Lincoln Lawyer,意思是他没有一个正经的law office,他的办公室是一辆(实际上是四辆)Lincoln Town car。他从一个区法院赶到另一个法院,办完了这个client的事,赶到另一个client那里去开会,所有的事务,一切的联络,包括跟他雇佣的私人侦探开会,除了一个秘书在家里接电话处理,全部在Lincoln车里进行。我从来没听说过这么稀奇的law practice,想想也真挺合逻辑的,在LA这种地方,一个每天东奔西跑的工作,在车里办公实在是太有道理了(他有司机)。除了打游击一样的办公日,另一个有趣的细节是主角Haller的报酬有时不是钱财而是交换和润滑生意。例如,他的司机是交不出律师费的旧client,替他白开一年的车抵债,另一个client把自己生意里的仓库租一间给他放资料。Haller每年圣诞节都给跟他有关系的bailbondsmen (做保释金生意的)一花生罐,里面不是花生而是一卷钞票,因为他靠他们拉生意,推荐自己替借保释金的被告辩护。

对律师有幻想的纯情读者,我推荐你看看这本书。除了Haller的刑事辩护律师角度,作者也点到地区检察官的控方的角度,因为Haller的前妻,他还爱着的女人,是个检察官。辩护律师的工作既不象师太或其他白日梦作品里那样一尘不染高高在上(虽然师太也抄过不少Law and Order,显然没得到精髓),也不象大众印象里那么sleazy和阴暗,黑暗的是这个并不公正,庞大而破旧的法律机器,渺小的各色人等都在里面尽力挣扎生存。

我的口味不一定适合许多的读者,我喜欢读的是战壕里一身泥水跌打滚爬的类型,扯到医生律师也是如此。明亮宽敞的办公室,挺刮无尘的西装,经手的全是干干净净的案例和贫血苍白的客户,良心上唯一的污点是拿过泊车罚单和领带跟袜子不配套,从专利律师到眼科医生,都太干净了,不是我这杯茶。虽然我自己没胆弄脏手,让我兴趣大涨的是理想主义起诉华尔街的的district attorney (elliott Spitzer is so cool),跟妓女毒贩杀人犯做交易的油腻辩护律师,酗酒骂人粗口不断的警探,开膛破肚的外科医生,在上锁的精神病院里巡视的精神科专家,给濒死的癌症病人拔管子的oncologist,等等,这类戏剧性强烈的类型。越是千疮百孔我越爱看,最好是写得活灵活现,让你闻得到诸人物的汗臭,看的见他们脸上的豆豆,耳朵里灌满他们的脏话。唉,我是看Deadwood看多了。 :lol:

Michael Connelly似乎做了很多的实地research,这本小说里对法庭和律师的描述都象是内部人写的,有很多新鲜不为外人所知的八卦,给读者的就不仅是law and order法律系统脸上的豆豆而是大腿上的伤疤和填了硅袋的胸部啦。如果你的口味跟我类似而又爱看Law and Order电视剧,那么我强烈推荐这本书。

4. The God Delusion (Richard Dawkins)

这本没心情写评论了。

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2006-11-15 12:57

自己提上来。

tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2006-11-15 13:09

wah, i gotta check out the first one.
乡音无改鬓毛衰

helenClaire
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Post by helenClaire » 2006-11-15 13:52

4. The God Delusion (Richard Dawkins)

这本没心情写评论了。
Then just tell us whether it's fiction or non-fiction. :-)
让我兴趣大涨的是理想主义起诉华尔街的的district attorney (elliott Spitzer is so cool),跟妓女毒贩杀人犯做交易的油腻辩护律师,酗酒骂人粗口不断的警探,开膛破肚的外科医生,在上锁的精神病院里巡视的精神科专家,给濒死的癌症病人拔管子的oncologist,等等,这类戏剧性强烈的类型。越是千疮百孔我越爱看,最好是写得活灵活现,让你闻得到诸人物的汗臭,看的见他们脸上的豆豆,耳朵里灌满他们的脏话。唉,我是看Deadwood看多了。
Reading fictions is like practising emotions, it's good to have trial-and-true formulas at hand. :-P

Jun
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Post by Jun » 2006-11-15 13:59

Nonfiction.

Richard Dawkins' nickname is "Darwin's Bulldog." He's a world renowned evolutionary biologist at Oxford and well published, popular atheist. I wrote a piece not long ago about me chasing his star at the local book store.

The book is his attack on religion, primarily Christianity and Islam.

Frankly, although I am as much an atheist as Dawkins and Sam Harris, I simply cannot bring myself to stand in their camp. I'm suspicious that their antireligious stance is more emotional than rational (as they claim).

I seem to have the uncanny ability to always alienate myself into the minority even when I'm in a minority group. :speechless002:
Last edited by Jun on 2006-11-15 14:56, edited 1 time in total.

wuliaotou
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Post by wuliaotou » 2006-11-15 14:45

同赞一下 rome。不过奇怪的是,它2005年拍,然后要等到今年年底才开始拍第2季

洛洛
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Post by 洛洛 » 2006-11-15 20:38

:admir002: :admir002: 我特别喜欢第二本书的书评。
第三段我也喜欢,不过我还是更喜欢一尘不染又不掌握我性命的眼科医生。 :-D
混坛上另一颗新星
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洛洛
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Post by 洛洛 » 2006-11-15 20:46

对了,jun,能不能在晋江引用你第三段的某些文字,作为我甜腻pink girl小说的某些参考?那里好像有人要主动给我写评,但我觉得你的文字更老辣。
混坛上另一颗新星
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tiffany
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Post by tiffany » 2006-11-15 21:06

Spitzer 是理想主义者啊?我害怕理想主义者,基本上历史上的人祸大部分出自理想主义者。

bosch系列是不好看。。。
乡音无改鬓毛衰

Knowing
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Post by Knowing » 2006-11-15 23:31

我看的好奇,去订了Irrational Exuberance 。不过呢,我对他的好多意见有保留。
首先是预测科技股票泡沫的破裂。这个一点也不稀奇。到98, 99 年,说科技股票是泡沫的分析师到处都是。但是人只听到他们想听的话,更难抵御的是周围人都似乎发了财。到了2000 年,人人都知道这个泡沫已经吹的太大,但是人人都指望在泡沫破灭前捞一把。也有精明的投资者想在泡沫破灭的时候捞一把--短科技股--可是又怕泡沫还没破灭,自己已经撑不住先弹尽粮绝的被迫补仓,惨淡收场。泡沫在某种意义上来说,是市场和人性(贪婪)的必然产品。宏观调节只能尽量降低程度,减轻损害,不可能灭之于无形。知识能力到了贪婪面前都不堪一击,越聪明越能干的越容易利欲熏心放手大赌。升斗小民亏了养老钱是真,华儿街上,曾经风光的天才一败涂地,几千万上亿的亏也是真的。

市场是不是有效率的呢?是,又不是。宏观的说,市场是有效率的。但这个效率是建立在流动性上。而流动需要什么?不平衡 -- 不平衡的地方才有利润,会有人来做中间人的买卖,然后带来流动性,流动性一高,不平衡就减小到消失...这是市场运作的方式。当然作者颠覆了“市场在宏观上是有效律”的常识,可是难道一年两年,在时间的长轴上不是微观么?所以我想看看他怎么说。

至于房地产的泡沫问题。房地产跟股市很不一样,地域性极强,看泡沫的最好方式是看大多数买家是为了自住还是投资,如果是投资的比例上升到不合理阶段,那就是泡沫。ARM 到算了,insterest only loan的问题在那里呢?它是一个合理的投资工具,而不是工薪阶层买自住房的合理工具。用insterest only 买自住房, 大部分就是投资,是等房子涨,不然租房子算了。但是fed 如果猛升利息,更加会一下把房市不必要的弄垮。我觉得--当然我也不是金融专家--问题和信用卡太滥一样,不是fed 不调息,根本在于相关银行法规不够严格,根本就不应该允许向普通民众发放5% down instreest only 的贷款。更准确的说,是不应该允许银行拼命推销这类贷款。就象年息是百分之二十还利滚利的信用卡根本就不应该被允许发行。

别的等我看了书再说吧。
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Post by Jun » 2006-11-16 7:16

tiffany wrote:Spitzer 是理想主义者啊?我害怕理想主义者,基本上历史上的人祸大部分出自理想主义者。
Spitzer is a smart and savvy and ambitious politician who at least knows what he's doing, which is darned rare nowadays.

I agree with you about idealists. Absolutely. I'm afraid of ideals and all the good concepts, like equality, justice, democracy, freedom, etc. I only believe in human nature and INCENTIVE.

But they make for good drama. :mrgreen:

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Post by Jun » 2006-11-16 7:28

洛洛 wrote:对了,jun,能不能在晋江引用你第三段的某些文字,作为我甜腻pink girl小说的某些参考?那里好像有人要主动给我写评,但我觉得你的文字更老辣。
嘿嘿,我对粉红少女小说没有意见,我不喜欢那种羡慕喜宝类型的鼓吹不劳而获拿青春美貌换取钱钱钱,浇灌极端势利物欲横流的白日梦和人生哲学的故事。你的小说跟那些自然沾不上边。象Helen说的,这只不过是我个人的口味而已,并不能代表blood and guts比粉红蕾丝高级。

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Post by 洛洛 » 2006-11-16 8:42

没关系啦,我猜想我到80岁还会这么天真粉红下去的(其实也是好事)。
第二三四段可以转么?地址是我小说里的那个。
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Post by Jun » 2006-11-16 8:50

OK. How do I see it? Just through the link you gave before?

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Post by 洛洛 » 2006-11-16 9:02

对,我准备放在回帖那儿。因为不能修改,所以我要慎重点先。
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Post by Knowing » 2006-11-16 10:34

粉红蕾丝小说我不反对,就是看着没什么满足感。喜宝小说呢--看着特别憋气上火,又没什么意思,全是少女作家坐屋里发梦,本质还是蕾丝小说,黑蕾丝。也不爱看blood and guts 小说,我的生活已经很惨淡了,看小说需要正面积极的东西. 说来说去,我就喜欢看基於现实生活,好坏参半,性格复杂,积极向上的励志小说。比如阿耐现在正在创作的<大江东去二十年>。
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Post by 火星狗 » 2006-11-16 10:43

早就不YY真人了。网上的粉红小说貌似比现实生活中的人“干净”,但是总带着作者的印记,而作者本人仍旧是位现实人。与其说看那些小说明白了完美主角是什么样,不如说明白了作者本人的某些心理。

有时候看看历史书,情节浓缩,细节忽略。也常看搞笑贴和妇女们烟火气十足活得兴兴头头的blog,总之是对心理建设有积极性影响的东西。

要从黑暗人性里汲取力量,大概需要更坚强一点的神经吧,我还没到那个高度。

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Post by tiffany » 2006-11-16 10:54

我看电影需要俊男美女打来打去比如著名烂片是密斯夫妇;看小说比较喜欢乐观的直面人生的有点儿传奇性的小说----我还是挺挑剔的哈。
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Post by Jun » 2006-11-16 10:58

乐观的直面人生的有点儿传奇性的小说
乐观的 and 直面人生的 don't seem to gel...

Neither Walter Mosley nor Henning Mankell fits the definition of optimism...

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Post by tiffany » 2006-11-16 11:01

好吧,不悲观的。
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Post by 火星狗 » 2006-11-16 11:06

乐观的 and 直面人生的 don't seem to gel...
也不完全是mission impossible,有好基因的人能做到。 :lol:

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Post by 豪情 » 2006-11-16 12:00

过分乐观和过分悲观都不算直面人生吧. 直面人生的里面有比较积极有比较消极的. :-D
SPITZER是个理想主义者.只要他的理想和你的一致就是个好理想主义者. 8)

说到市场的效率, 现在没什么绝对完全市场调节的东西了吧, 到处都有政府干预. INTEREST ONLY不是坏事, 因为INTEREST ONLY 去买了自己不能承担的东西只好算买错了不算贷错了款吧. 高利率信用卡也一样. 这属于个人的责任, 不能要政府银行来BABYSIT. 就象自己吃胖了告麦当劳一样. (说完了发现我越来越往右转了, 但我坚持我是财政右倾, 意识形态左倾).

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Post by Jun » 2006-11-16 12:10

Personal responsibilty. Sounds familiar. May I point out that there is no such thing (realistically) as personal control of one's own life and choices?

I don't necessarily and automatically advocate for more government regulation on everything. I doubt Shiller meant the same thing.

What I'm trying to point out is that, contrary to most people's assumptions, a government like the US government is often NOT regulating to the advantage of the people. Nor are the government regulations always or often pushing socially or economically left-leaning agenda.

More regulation = Democratic Party's agenda, librals agenda, economically left agenda. It is not a true and accurate assumption.
Last edited by Jun on 2006-11-16 13:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Jun » 2006-11-16 12:22

One could easily argue that if you are stupid, ignorant, uneducated about overpriced stocks, just don't buy them, and leave the stock trading to smart, informed, well researched, and knowledgeable peoples who know what's overpriced and what's underpriced to buy and sell stocks.

That is precisely the kind of market efficiency theory Shiller attacks. To make profit, someone sells overpriced stock, but he has to sell it to someone who is willing to buy. Money has to change hands from the stupid, uninformed, ignorant, and uneducated to the smart, well informed, experienced, and knowledgeable. Guess who are the stupid, uninformed, ignorant, and uneducated?

The system, including the media AND THE GOVERNMENT, is wired to help businesses more than it helps the average suckers. Why? Because there is no incentive for them to give more advantage to "the people" at the disadvantage to the business.

Do I promote more government regulations to the advantage of average suckers who don't know what they're doing? Not necessarily and not absolutely. But even average suckers can learn about their disadvantages in the market and apply caution as needed.

There are always going to be people who are too stupid, too undeducated, too greedy, too easy to be manipulated, too irrational, to fall for scams and stuff. C'est la vie. I don't believe anyone morally deserve to be thrown out of their house or lose their life savings. But what can you do? In this world, people are punished for being unlucky and stupid, not for being evil.

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Post by Knowing » 2006-11-16 12:42

In this world, people are punished for being unlucky and stupid, not for being evil
No, they are punished for being greedy, not for being unlucky and stupid. But I believe people should be protected from their own greed.

I really don't believe average people should invest heavily in stock market. I don't.
INTEREST ONLY不是坏事, 因为INTEREST ONLY 去买了自己不能承担的东西只好算买错了不算贷错了款吧.
This is like saying the is not the gun's fault that murderers choose to kill , or it is not the cigarette's fault because people choose to smoke. Interest only loan are too actively promoted to average people, in turns fueled the rapidly rising house price.
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Post by Jun » 2006-11-16 13:03

they are punished for being greedy, not for being unlucky and stupid
I disagree with this particular statement.

Everyone is greedy. So am I. So was Jeff Skilling and Kenneth Lay. So is Dick Chaney and his friends. So is Bill Gates. So is the people who buy Warren Buffet's Burkshire stocks.

Some are smarter and ... for lack of a better word, more capable of satisfying their greed through whatever ability they have. Or they're lucky. Or all of the "winning" factors.

Some have greed but no skills or smarts, or any of the other qualities to strike it rich.

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Post by Knowing » 2006-11-16 13:14

Nah, you really meant drive to sucess when you said "greed". Greed in boarder sense is not a bad thing. But when I talked about "greed" in the above statement, I meant the excessive degree of desire that impaired one's judgement. Not given the option or temptation, one would have been fine. But in 2000, everyone else around you seemed to have doubled their investment within 3 months through bying some silly none-profitable dot-com, it might as well have gone over your head and caused your investement in pet.com. Now, that is greed, not a terrible sin, but is not quite stupidity either, it just makes you make stupid decisions against your better judgement.
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Post by Knowing » 2006-11-16 13:18

Not that I consider greed a terrible sin. I think it is just human weakness that everyone is prone to. That's why there should be protections against it. It is like..drugs should not be everywhere, casinos should not be at the street corner, and loansharks should not be allowed to hang out on college campus.
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Post by 豪情 » 2006-11-16 13:23

You shattered my dream! :-( I am seriously considering interst-only option. :-)
An observation is people base they opinions on their positions. :wink:

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Post by Knowing » 2006-11-16 13:28

I am sure you are mature investor who can handle the decision, XiaoHao. :mrgreen:
Although Bay area housing price totally doesn't make sense to me. Besides, the rent seems so cheap that it easily beats buying... Again my data is very limited, basicly from the 4 or 5 friends living in Bay area, so don't listen to me.
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Post by 豪情 » 2006-11-16 13:40

If you listen to house owners in Bay Area, they would tell you Bay Area is a prime location, there are so much wealth floating around, still more people are rushing in, and blah blah...
If you listen to renters, they would say local housing market will fall apart and blah blah...
:mrgreen:

The housing price doesn't make sense to me either. It makes even less sense moving here. You know, sometimes, it is not only about money.
Last edited by 豪情 on 2006-11-16 15:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by 豪情 » 2006-11-16 13:51

Seattle housing price doesn't make sense to outsiders either. As far as I know, it is mainly caused by government regulation. Environmentalist want to keep more natural reserve and push through a lot of strict regulations for land usage so there are very little available land and very high cost for development.

I am not sure about Bay Area, though.

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Post by Jun » 2006-11-16 14:07

豪情,我同意interest-only 贷款并不总是陷阱,这要看当地租房的市场价格和当时的贷款利率,加上其他因素,例如你打算在买的房子里住多久,你们的税能省多少,等等。算一算就可以,贷interest-only买房跟租房差不多,你都是进出没有建立equity,你花在贷款上的钱数加上买卖地产的各项费用和地产税,减去省下来的所得税,就是你要花出去的钱,拿这个跟租房的费用比较,看哪个低,就比较划算啦。还要考虑的是如果没有20%down payment,你要交PMI,如果要避免PMI,你就得多贷一个piggyback贷款,而这些piggyback贷款的利率一般都很高,9%, 10%这样,是否划算?另外一个风险是当地房价的趋势,如果你买时按照五十万的价格借钱,两年后要卖时只能卖到四十万,可是你还欠着银行五十万,那么这中间的十万只好自己掏腰包了。如果房子涨了当然好,但是谁也不知道你要脱手时行情会如何。租房也有风险,比如,租房市场紧张,房主明年加你15%的租金,你也没办法预见。

大多数人借interest-only贷款根本没算过账,也不是为了实际的省钱,只不过是买不起房子又被四周闹哄哄的炒作(包括各种"权威人士"在电视上推销)影响,觉得租房子简直就是人格低下或者弱智的表现,赶紧随大流去买。除非忽然掉下一笔遗产或者被富人包起来,就等着银行来收回财产吧。

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Post by 豪情 » 2006-11-16 15:25

小K太恭维我了, 我不是投资者,我是消费者. :-) 从经济意义来说弯曲现在肯定是买不如租的, 但老拖家带口搬家很痛苦, 如果还老需要给宝宝换DAYCARE的话. 所以我还在犹豫着呢.

回到主题,
我的口味不一定适合许多的读者,我喜欢读的是战壕里一身泥水跌打滚爬的类型,扯到医生律师也是如此。明亮宽敞的办公室,挺刮无尘的西装,经手的全是干干净净的案例和贫血苍白的客户,良心上唯一的污点是拿过泊车罚单和领带跟袜子不配套,从专利律师到眼科医生,都太干净了,不是我这杯茶。虽然我自己没胆弄脏手,让我兴趣大涨的是理想主义起诉华尔街的的district attorney (elliott Spitzer is so cool),跟妓女毒贩杀人犯做交易的油腻辩护律师,酗酒骂人粗口不断的警探,开膛破肚的外科医生,在上锁的精神病院里巡视的精神科专家,给濒死的癌症病人拔管子的oncologist,等等,这类戏剧性强烈的类型。越是千疮百孔我越爱看,最好是写得活灵活现,让你闻得到诸人物的汗臭,看的见他们脸上的豆豆,耳朵里灌满他们的脏话。唉,我是看Deadwood看多了。
这段写的真痛快. 亦舒的小说越写越不好看, 就是后来一点烟火气都没有了.
Last edited by 豪情 on 2006-11-16 17:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by dropby » 2006-11-16 16:42

房地产市场和股票市场最大的不同其实是小K说的流动性问题, 和投资成本问题, 所以如果股票市场大多数时候是efficient的市场的话, 房地产市场大多数时候不是.

买房自住, 其实通常也都有投资因素在里面. 加拿大还贷是用税后收入, 所以自住房不交capital gain tax. 绝大多数的加拿大人都把自住房当作退休投资的一部分.

如果是一个平衡的市场, 买房从经济上来说, 应该永远不如租房划算才对, 因为买房有租房所没有的各种好处, 比如不用老搬家, 归属感, 不用担心房租涨, 可以随心所欲装修. 但是目前两者的差价太大了, 买房的这些好处已经远远不能justify这个差价了.

当然, 除非, 比如对小情来说, 可以负担得起买房, 宝宝的生活稳定又是第一位非要不可的, 那么, 你已经把有些东西放在经济算盘之上, priceless的东西, 只要花得起, 花多少钱也不算贵.

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