读中感:the Great Gatsby

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tiffany
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读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2010-03-11 15:01

这本书跟移动的盛宴一样,都是阿大力荐书籍,阿大并说:这本书实在是太天才了,难怪海明为嫉妒Fitzgerald。那以我老人家这么好奇,自然要去看看这家伙到底有多天才了。书借来了两个星期,也就看了一半儿,为哈捏?因为这书的节奏太慢,大主角Gatsby出场是第三章(?)以后的事情。不但节奏慢,而且没啥情节,基本上就是吃吃饭趴趴提的事儿。看到现在主要感觉就是一个字:乱。书中人东扑一下儿西扑一下儿,不知道他们想干吗。

这本书是我看过的所有的书里面最cynical的一本。作者说话的调调不阴不阳,然而他倒是诚实的让人牙疼,自己心里的一闪念很不惮于跟大家分享;对所有人说的所有话统统抱你就那么一说的态度。他这个态度搞得我对这个Gatsby自述的背景故事也很怀疑 --- 讲故事的人都信了,我还没信呢;虽然有高尔夫健将小娘对Gatsby的故事有旁证,但是他又说了,这个小娘扯谎。这本书写到了一小半儿,终于男主角儿的诡异行径开始有了合理解释,情节貌似马上就有大飞跃似的进展,我老人家就困的不行,只能睡觉了。睡觉前暗暗祈祷可千万别发展成通俗爱情故事,一边儿又觉得别跟James Elloy似的,Fitzgeral那cynical的表面下藏着颗浪漫的红心。

当然阿大没有说错,这个家伙确实是个天才,每个场景每个人都活灵活现的。这书要是早20年看,一定会被我列为必读书籍,走到哪里腰里都要别上一本儿。

the end
Last edited by tiffany on 2010-03-11 15:56, edited 1 time in total.
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putaopi
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by putaopi » 2010-03-11 15:06

tiffany wrote:睡觉前暗暗祈祷可千万别发展成通俗爱情故事,一边儿又觉得别跟James Elloy似的,Fizgeral那cynical的表面下藏着颗浪漫的红心。

the end
还没看完呢? 我不怀好意地冷笑,嘿嘿。

tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2010-03-11 15:11

没哪,难道他真的有颗浪漫的红心吗? :shock: :mrgreen:
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幻儿
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2010-03-11 16:18

啊啊啊我热爱这本书,它是极少数我翻到不拘哪一页都能够接着读下去的书之一,然后一边看一边觉得怎么这么好看啊 :love019: 篇幅短信息量却非常大,语言美得不行却又似全不着力。天分不够但刻苦的人是写不成这样的,Fitzgerald真是天才啊天才 :love011:

tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2010-03-12 10:01

我昨天晚上努力把该书给看完了,yay to me! 然后我就理解了什么叫天才:天才就是能把小报儿素材写成文学巨著的家伙。 :mrgreen:

阿大说的对,这本书是本可以慢慢看的书,跟肥皂剧似的,故事上一页到下一页之间的进展以毫米计;节奏这么慢,看的人自然也不着急。其实仔细想想,这本书写这么薄也对,根本就没出啥事儿。尤其是讲故事的人作为一个旁观者,主角们感情爆发的时候,他都自发自觉的闪了,这得省多少章书啊!而且到底是30年代,大家们还很含蓄,我看了半天,觉得Gatzby跟他的梦中情人‘遂成夫妻’了,但是用词那叫一个委婉,我看了半天也不敢确认。所以说啊,Fitzgerald是一伟大作家,可成不了小报儿写手,果汁的地方统统都敬而远了。

然后,我得说,这本书给我印象最深刻的乃是两根儿闪亮的鼻毛。鼻毛之外,我觉得他写的真是很2,30年代的美国的感觉。当然我也不知道2,30年代美国到底啥样儿,但是对照Hammet的描写,那确是同一种感觉。
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CAVA
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by CAVA » 2010-03-12 11:26

有没有很多delicious的二、三十年代的细节,象阿婆的那些?如果有我也想看一看。

Jun
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2010-03-12 11:27

The thing I remember the most from both Hammet and Fitzgerald is that they drink a lot. A LOT!
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CAVA
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by CAVA » 2010-03-12 11:30

Wasn't that the cool thing to do in those days? Mineral water drinking comes much later.

tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2010-03-12 11:36

应该算有吧。他这本书主要就是大家吃饭趴提的事儿。 :mrgreen:
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幻儿
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2010-03-12 12:10

灰常多二三十年代的细节,盖茨比家的爬梯,黛西家的爬梯,黛西老公情妇家的爬梯,好多阶层的人物全都活灵活现。这本书拍的电影1974年版的还不错,盖茨比是好莱坞金童Robert Redford扮演,黛西是Mia Farrow扮演 -- 她是Frank Sinatra的前妻之一Woody Allen的前伴侣,后来Woody Allen跟她的养女婚了。
tiffany wrote:其实仔细想想,这本书写这么薄也对,根本就没出啥事儿。
白博还觉得这本书里没出啥事儿?我觉得情节很曲折而且很出人意料啊,暗恋偷情之类好吧不算啥事儿,车祸死人算个事儿吧,还有谋杀呀 -- 主角被谋杀还不算大事儿!白博你这真是上流社会的态度啊,发生这么多事之后黛西和她老公就跟没事儿人一样;像我这样的下层劳动人民,就比较容易大惊小怪心惊肉跳追昔抚今感慨良多 :mrgreen:

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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2010-03-12 12:47

终于有空了,我非常兴奋你把这两本书给联系在一起了。那个《移动的盛宴》我推荐的?我不记得了。那本书我不算特别喜欢,但是买了两本,原因就是书里的最后三分之一在写菲兹基拉德。从这本书起我开始对菲兹基拉德感兴趣。《了不起的盖兹比》的确不负我的期待。为此我还买了本菲兹基拉德不出名的短篇小说选。从海明威的描写到《了不起的盖兹比》,菲兹基拉德都表现出了非常明显的天才和懦弱混合的悲剧性格。我对这个作者太感兴趣了,有空我写完了游记一定要好好写写我的读后感。我很喜欢的书都是只适合慢读的,从图书馆排队出来看就太赶了。不是那种情节目不暇接的小说。《了不起的盖兹比》结构很清楚,我觉得是那种书写了之后改过很多次的代表,每一章都有一个清楚的目的,时代、人物描写非常有回味。这本书被称为爵士时代最好的代表。我经常看到一句硌了一下,又回头把整个段落重新看了一遍,重新感觉一下他到底是褒是贬。他那个皮里阳秋的调调儿,感觉就是要修改文字出来。所以他对那个时代的细节有精致的描写,但跟阿婆的不一样。阿婆的小说还是可以一气呵成给看下来的。这本书我看几页就得歇歇。
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2010-03-12 13:25

幻儿 wrote:啊啊啊我热爱这本书,它是极少数我翻到不拘哪一页都能够接着读下去的书之一,然后一边看一边觉得怎么这么好看啊 :love019: 篇幅短信息量却非常大,语言美得不行却又似全不着力。天分不够但刻苦的人是写不成这样的,Fitzgerald真是天才啊天才 :love011:
同感同感!
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tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2010-03-12 13:44

我们好的果然不是同一口儿。我就说这本书我晚读了20年。早5年看,估计都很那个啥。 :mrgreen: 现在看,就记得鼻毛了。 :mrgreen:

不过他写的确实是好,那种无缘无故到处赶热闹的漂泊气氛写得真透,大部分时间,大部分人还是能找到乐子的,找到乐子了就忘了漂这件事情了。2,30年代,美国白手成家的富翁纷纷冒头的时代,人人野心勃勃,旧钱看不起新钱,乱哄哄的。
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2010-03-12 14:08

对了,我提醒了你了,这本书很pink的。他从一开始写就在细节描写的时候不停地露出粉红色的小马脚。盖兹比出场的时候就有很粉红的大段描写。对了这点跟阿婆是对立地。阿婆是很智慧地从容地认清时事,随手8卦,感觉年纪比较大的那种。这本盖兹比是反过来的,作者本人是个巨大的矛盾体,他写细节清楚就能感觉那种作者自己是个矛盾体,又敏感又清醒又懦弱又激烈,他所有的描写都觉得他一半人在热情参与事件,另一半在远处冷笑着旁观。最绝的是他自己知道这一点,还清楚地在书里写出来了。他最本质的东西呢,是非常弱软的,所以有些感觉的描写,我想半天记起来从前我感觉纤细的时候是有的,可能人人都曾经有,小白20年前有,但少有人写得这么清楚。
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Jun
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2010-03-12 14:17

This is a story about class and the American Dream.
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tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2010-03-12 14:23

恩,是,这本书就是这样的,一边儿落力快活,一边儿冷笑,最后有点儿无能的义愤。讲故事的这个人是貌似随和实际别扭的一个人,跟毛母之月亮与六便士的叙事者差得很大。

别说,昨天晚上看到他某句话,让我想起来很久以前,桃花刚开,晚上骑车回家,风儿温柔,柔和的象丝缎;天黑了,楼里的窗户都亮着,空气里飘着蠢蠢欲动的味道,每一呼吸都暗示着今年有什么重大的重要的事情要发生...... 结果什么也没发生,跟去年一样,跟前年一样,跟之前那年一样。
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sinca
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by sinca » 2010-03-13 16:24

很好奇,是哪句话勾起了白博这么文艺这么温柔的回忆?
那薄如蝉翼的未来,经不起谁来拆。

Jun
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2010-03-13 18:48

这段我也记得,可见是很经典的。好像是 Gatsby 跟 Daisy 初恋的时候的描述。

很有画面感,里面的很多场景,我嫌文字太文艺腔,但是当时联想起的画面到现在还记得。最好先读小说再看电影。
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by CAVA » 2010-03-14 3:55

今天是个阳光灿烂的好天,准备待会儿去图书馆借这本书,边看看街边新冒出来的花朵。

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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by putaopi » 2010-03-14 16:53

这个还算文艺腔吗? Jun你得去看他的《This Side of Paradise>, 更是文艺得要命,我得用力才能读下去。Fitzgerald是有颗粉红的心,不过这颗心是泡在酒精里的。这本书和后来的〈夜色温柔〉都是取材于他自己的生活,女主角都是他的老婆Zelda。说起Zelda, 真真是个悲剧,有次我在机场里买了她的传记,看得实在depressed,临回家的时候就把厚厚的一本新书留在了酒店里,不想带回来了。

tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2012-07-07 9:57

最新发现这本书有48个结尾,比海明威的多一个 :mrgreen:
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幻儿
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2013-03-21 12:32

作为盖茨比脑残粉我再把这个帖子提上来,想问大家个问题。
周五有个盖茨比讨论会,请了Jay McInerney和Anne Margaret Daniel讨论why The Great Gatsby is one of the great classics of 20th-century literature(这题目起的。。。)
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/2013/m ... at-gatsby/
注册的时候让问来宾一个问题,我想不出来啥好问题,就问了俩同事,这俩都是写了不少小说但出版未遂的aspiring writers, 一边绞尽脑汁的想出版,一边三心二意的当着律师。。。这俩人一个让我问:盖茨比按照现在的标准是不是under-written了?现在的great American novel是不是得over-written,像Jonathan Franzen的Freedom? 另一个人想问:为啥Fitzgerald其他小说没有这部好却都比这部卖座?这部小说为啥不好卖?我心说这俩就一心想卖小说,一点都不粉丝,我不要问这些!
所以上来请教大家,问什么问题呢? :headscratch:

Jun
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2013-03-21 17:43

To your knowledge was Gatsby based on a real person Fiztgerald knew in real life?

It's a very class conscious novel, like quite a lot of other American novels then (eg, steinbeck etc). American literature has moved away from class topics since then. What do you think about this in that time and in our time?

Why did the novel choose Nick Carraway's POV, not Gatsby's? Could the novel have been better if he had written from Gatsby's POV?
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tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2013-03-21 18:22

赞!都是好问题啊。
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2013-03-21 18:47

大赞! :super: 经常跑读书年会就是不一样!
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2013-03-22 9:18

多谢Jun! :admir001:
我喜欢第二个问题!
第一个,Jay Gatsby以非法贩酒致富,在当时应该是比较典型的。大家应该都听说过这种人,Fitzgerald交游广泛,大约也认识这样的人。
第三个,Nick是第三方,通过他才能既看到盖茨比,又看到黛西汤姆及情妇,新钱老钱没钱他都有access,而且相对来说处于局外人的地位。盖茨比呢,obsessed with Daisy,其他的他看不见,而且用Nick的话来说,盖茨比讲话充满了"appalling sentimentality",又是星星又是花儿的 :lol: (大家都知道开篇Nick就说他老爸告诫他不要judgmental,无奈Nick就是忍不住啊,从头judge到尾 :mrgreen: )最后作为脑残粉,我很难想象这本书能更好--它的人物,情节,语言,叙述角度等等合起来才有这本书,甚至连它的“缺点”也成为它的伟大的一部分,仿佛一个精巧的机器,任何一个零件都有其必然性,任何改动都会让这个机器停止运转。

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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2013-03-22 9:50

After I wrote my questions I realized that they came from my own feelings about the novel. I always feel the characters are written unevenly. Tom and Daisy and Nick seem more authentic than Gatsby and the poor ones. Gatsby especially does not feel as authentic as the blue bloods.
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2013-03-22 12:34

我也觉得盖兹比人物比较虚,尤其是爱情观象是菲兹及拉德自己的。
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tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2013-03-22 13:15

其实我觉得到最后,这本书写的最好的一个人是作者本人。
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幻儿
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2013-03-25 12:18

上来汇报一下:
原来这是为了5月5号3D电影上映做的节目,BBC会在5月4号播出并放在网上。到时候大家有兴趣可以听听,我就不在这里复述了。
观众很多,大家问问题很踊跃,我没排上号。两位嘉宾都对书和作者非常非常熟,其中一位还是新电影的文学顾问之一。我觉得很有收获很有意思。

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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2013-03-25 12:37

这片儿是 Baz Lurman 拍的吧?他来了么?
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幻儿
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2013-03-25 12:56

对,是他导的,他没来。他们一开始就说这本书拍成电影如何如何难,因为它里面的对话不出奇,而叙述的语言之美就很难用影像表达出来。。。我听了这话就觉得是不是我得把期待值调低一点 :nono: 这导演以前拍的片子,罗密欧和朱丽叶,红磨坊,澳大利亚,都是华美无灵魂的大片,这么一想就更没信心,录制前坐在我旁边的观众也在说这导演可能不行 :sick:

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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by putaopi » 2013-03-25 22:22

只要华美就值得看。爵士时代的时装布景,想想就觉得美,就怕在这些东西上都没下功夫,拍成彻底的大路货。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2013-03-25 22:35

我觉得从片花看,不象30年代,就是个没有时代背景的大party
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helenClaire
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by helenClaire » 2013-03-31 17:17

又没赶上热烈讨论。但这书几乎是我的最爱,还是要热烈加入。

当年冷泉港实验室颇有些富人死后捐赠的地皮在附近,没怎么拿来为科学服务,就放那儿让大家玩儿。明明是泳池清碧,海景无敌的所在,偏偏谦虚地叫做什么什么马棚,什么什么茅庐。有一次,groundkeeper家有位很老很老的老太太和我们聊起本地掌故,说附近哪个豪宅里当年住着的就是盖茨比的原型。老太太一再用unique这词儿来形容原型,那时候莱特兄弟才出道几年呀?这位原型就开飞机去manhattan上班打理生意了。因为听了这个,到了今天,我还觉得小说的发生地点就在Oyster Bay附近。老罗斯福总统的故居也在那儿,当然他是老钱出身。

故事的背景应该是一战结束后,29年股市崩盘前的Gilded Age.很多人都富了,妇女们不再穿紧身箍,身体和精神都有点儿解放。故事里,TOM是来自芝加哥的老钱,DAISY是来自南方Louisville的老钱,盖茨比是暴发户,Nick算中中产吧,情妇和她丈夫是劳动人民。。。大家都觉得自己有大把的机会,欢乐地蹦跶着。作者则怀着“我们奋力在逆流的河上划行中倒退”的宿命感,也说不清楚是什么打动我,这么多年了。

可能有先入为主的印象吧,74年的电影极好,说到这儿,今天晚上就该重温一下。雷德福真是帅得死脱。只电影开头那场Party戏,就叹为观止。后来还拍过一个,气势完全不行,演员也长得难看。现在又要有新的了,可惜男主演员不是我欣赏得了的那种,没什么期盼,估计还是会去电影院里看看,万一好呢?
tiffany wrote:而且到底是30年代,大家们还很含蓄,我看了半天,觉得Gatzby跟他的梦中情人‘遂成夫妻’了,但是用词那叫一个委婉,我看了半天也不敢确认。所以说啊,Fitzgerald是一伟大作家,可成不了小报儿写手,果汁的地方统统都敬而远了。
唉,书里写得蛮清楚的,用的是debauched 一词。 我就不委婉了,盖茨比是黛西的第一个情人。黛西也不是生来就没心没肺的。当年她逃家送盖茨比去出征,结婚前夜歇斯底里地发作,生了女儿后说"我希望她长大后做一个美丽的傻瓜“,我一直觉得她懂得痛苦。

作者的短篇我读过厚厚一本集子,非常粉红,象江浙菜似的,无论什么材料,总有勺糖在里面,甜丝丝的。极擅长写女孩子之间的勾心斗角的友谊,让人觉得他特gay。

Jun
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2013-03-31 17:49

helenClaire wrote:极擅长写女孩子之间的勾心斗角的友谊,让人觉得他特gay。
这话可以用来形容 Henry James (是弯的)。 :mrgreen:

果然是有原型的!只是我才不相信这种人会为爱献身。这种事只有 Fitzgerald 自己才会想出来。
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2013-04-03 20:04

盖兹比的原型都有些啥?也大肆开舞会?为爱情献身不可能吧?

费兹及拉德开始写盖兹比我记得是21年,他才25岁。小说里爱情观粉红,情绪澎湃细腻正符合25岁年纪,但是观察的视角的老道,描写时冷静的疏离感和皮里阳秋的调调儿,却属于一颗老灵魂。真是对比强烈的组合。这点特别吸引我。25写的小说让后来许多年纪大的人一直喜欢,比如Garrison Keillor , 真是天才。
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helenClaire
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by helenClaire » 2013-04-07 7:34

主要是跟据说FIX了1919 WORLD SERIES的那个人交往过密,为了生意上的什么事儿蹲过大狱,和个女演员还是女记者的闹出些狗血的事情还上了报纸。。。反正八卦群众说他粉红了,他难道登报声明他不粉红就有用? :mrgreen: 像盖茨比这种一不留神丢了性命的就更惨了,被人说为爱献身,他再不忿也不过在地下六尺翻几个身,还想怎样?

我觉得盖茨比这个人物,和刀锋里的拉里一样,都是虚写的人物,他们周围的人物则都是实写的。对于独立特行的人物用衬托手法嘛。

1919 WORLD SERIES是件挺大的事儿,也一直没有公论。有个电影FIELD OF DREAM 就是讲这个的,也是虚写。

笑嘻嘻
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2013-04-07 10:20

哎,对,我怎么忘了这个方面。
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Jun
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2013-04-07 13:00

最近在读海明威短篇小说集,读到“乞力马扎罗之雪”里面有一段儿:
She didn't drink so much, now, since she had him. But if he lived he would never write about her, he knew that now. Nor about any of them. The rich were dull and they drank too much, or they played too much backgammon. They were dull and they were repetitious. He remembered poor Julian and his romantic awe of them and how he had started a story once that began, "The very rich are different from you and me." And how some one had said to Julian, Yes, they have more money. But that was not humorous to Julian. He thought they were a special glamourous race and when he found they weren't it wrecked him just as much as any other thing that wrecked him.
这是在说 Fitzgerald 吧?
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2013-04-07 13:27

是。 :mrgreen:
http://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:F._ ... #section_1
You may have heard about a legendary exchange between the American novelists F. Scott Fitzgerald (1896-1940) and Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961).
Usually, Fitzgerald is quoted as saying: “The rich are different from you and me.” And, Hemingway is quoted as responding: “Yes, they have more money."
In fact, this is a mythical quote-counterquote. Here’s how it became a legend…
In 1925, Fitzgerald wrote a short story titled “Rich Boy.” It was later published in a popular book of his short stories titled All the Sad Young Men (1936). The story begins with this passage:
"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them,
makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. They are different."
Clearly, that’s not a favorable view of the rich.
But years later, Ernest Hemingway, who was supposedly a friend of Fitzgerald, mocked the famed opening lines of “Rich Boy” in his short story “The Snows of Kilimanjaro.” In the original version of that story, printed in Esquire magazine in 1936, Hemingway wrote: “The rich...were dull and they drank too much, or they played too much backgammon. They were dull and they were repetitious. He remembered poor Scott Fitzgerald and his romantic awe of them and how he had started a story once that began, “The very rich are different from you and me.” And how some one had said to Scott, Yes, they have more money. But that was not humorous to Scott. He thought they were a special glamorous race and when he found they weren't it wrecked him as much as any other thing that wrecked him.”
Understandably, Fitzgerald was offended. He complained to Hemingway’s publisher and when the story was reprinted in a 1938 collection of Hemingway’s short stories, “Scott Fitzgerald” was changed to the name “Julian.”
But in his personal notebooks, Fitzgerald made the mistake of writing a cryptic entry that said: “They have more money. (Ernest’s wisecrack.)”
After Fitzgerald’s death, entries from his notebooks were included in The Crack-Up (1945), a book compiled from Fitzgerald’s writings by his friend Edmund Wilson.
Wilson added a footnote to the notebook entry about Ernest’s wisecrack that explained: “Fitzgerald had said, ‘The rich are different from us.’ Hemingway had replied, ‘Yes, they have more money.’”
After that, books began citing this footnote as if it were an actual conversation between Fitzgerald and Hemingway. And, thus a famous quote-counterquote myth was born.
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tiffany
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by tiffany » 2013-04-07 18:54

:mrgreen: 阿大比我还OCD, 某些地方。 :mrgreen:
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幻儿
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2013-04-08 12:49

Mad Men新一季开播,之前的就又回到Netflix。我从第一季开始重看,更加觉得Donald Draper就是60年代的盖茨比(我好像以前在哪个帖子里就说过?)。出身卑微,因为特殊的机缘re-invent themselves,混迹于“上流社会”,但是"过去"如同角落阴影里蹲着的怪兽,仿佛随时会张开血盆大口将他们吞噬。他们想要的女人也是相似的。盖茨比看上去爱黛西爱的发疯,但我觉得他爱的并不是黛西本人,而是黛西所在的那个世界,是"Daisy, gleaming like silver, safe and proud above the hot struggles of the poor." 虽然Daisy和Betty的个性不同,但是对于盖茨比和DD来说,她们是同一类型的女孩,是超然于hot struggles的cool world里的“nice” girl,是他们重新塑造的“自己”当中非常重要的一部分。

还有DD帮助犹太女老板那段,不就是现在JCPenney在做的事情吗? -- 放弃低档消费者,不搞coupon,走高端路线。我不记得这个犹太女老板的故事了-- 后来她的商场成功转型了吗?反正JCPenny转型以来业绩相当差,不知道能不能翻身 :roll:

还有一个感想就是,我第一次看Mad Men第一季的时候完全没想到Sal是gay,现在看不要太明显,真是处处线索啊! :lol:
Last edited by 幻儿 on 2013-04-09 8:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Jun » 2013-04-08 15:29

幻儿 wrote:Mad Men新一季开播,之前的就又回到Netflix。我从第一季开始重看,更加觉得Donald Draper就是60年代的盖茨比(我好像以前在哪个帖子里就说过?)。出身卑微,因为特殊的机缘re-invent themselves,混迹于“上流社会”,但是"过去"如同角落阴影里蹲着的怪兽,仿佛随时会张开血盆大口将他们吞噬。他们想要的女人也是相似的。盖茨比看上去爱黛西爱的发疯,但我觉得他爱的并不是黛西本人,而是黛西所在的那个世界,是"Daisy, gleaming like silver, safe and proud above the hot struggles of the poor." 虽然Daisy和Betty的个性不同,但是对于盖茨比和DD来说,她们是同一类型的女孩,是超然于hot struggles的cool world里的“nice” girl,是他们重新塑造的“自己”当中非常重要的一部分。
我说过。The Great Gatsby 之所以被认为是 the greatest American novel (or one of the ...),主要的原因还是在于它的代表性,对 "The American Dream" 的揭露。Gatsby 代表 the ultimate American dream, in which anyone can remake himself --- at least that's the promise. 不管你出身如何低微,到了新大陆可以重新开始,获得极大的往上爬的机会而成为蓝血贵族中的一员,早就被称为 "Horatio Alger" 之神话(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger,_Jr.)。这个主题在很多文艺作品里被反复探索。中国人对这套神话有十分深刻的认同感,虽然历史背景不同,但是“鲤鱼跳龙门”,“一朝得道”的个人奋斗神话有相通之处。
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幻儿
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2013-04-09 8:32

昨天我还在想J.C.Penney,今天就看到改革派的CEO Johnson被董事会开除了,上一任CEO被请回来。话说Johnson刚接手的时候我很看好他,一心期待他能在J.C. Penney重复他在Target和Apple Store的成功,他翻修商店,引进高端品牌,还请了Ellen做代言人,眼看着J.C. Penney就要从折扣店变成chic店,结果Johnson出师未捷身先死 :-(

Knowing
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Knowing » 2013-04-09 14:16

这本书原型是在冷泉?我为什么觉得是长岛,南汉普顿和北汉普顿?
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笑嘻嘻
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 笑嘻嘻 » 2013-04-09 14:20

这讨论真好看!
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幻儿
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by 幻儿 » 2013-04-09 16:04

Knowing wrote:这本书原型是在冷泉?我为什么觉得是长岛,南汉普顿和北汉普顿?
不知道原型住哪儿 -- 原型是谁也没定论吧,好象?有各种说法。但东西卵是Sands Point和Kings Point基本可以确定,在Port Washington那里,没有汉普顿那么远。

helenClaire
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by helenClaire » 2013-04-10 8:23

Knowing wrote:这本书原型是在冷泉?我为什么觉得是长岛,南汉普顿和北汉普顿?
冷泉港就在长岛上呀。

Knowing
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Re: 读中感:the Great Gatsby

Post by Knowing » 2013-04-10 8:38

地理不好的人脸红了。。。海伦写的真好看啊,多回来写给我们看吧。
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