Bill Maher speaks the brutal truth live on MSNBC at the DNC

入得谷来,祸福自求。

Bill Maher speaks the brutal truth live on MSNBC at the DNC

帖子Knowing » 2008-08-28 11:35

he said: "American people at the end of the day have to look into the mirror, and they get the leader they deserve." I can't agree more.

I can't wait for the return of "Real Time" this Friday night!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0mWi2NYAe0
Nevertheless, she persisted.
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-28 11:43

That's not a new concept. I've been saying that for years, and I am not the first to say it either. :preston_collar:
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子笑嘻嘻 » 2008-08-28 11:47

Which one do you think they deserve?
道由白云尽,春与青溪长。
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-28 11:53

I want to know too. We will see.
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-28 11:53

They deserve Karl Rove, who is already running McCain's show RIGHT NOW.
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-28 12:01

Don't say that. Let's keep the hope alive. They also voted for Bill Clinton, remember? Last night I looked at him and fondly recalled all the good times in 2000, the height of dot-com bubble, when programmers ruled the world.... :f22:
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帖子笑嘻嘻 » 2008-08-28 12:09

But... even only from last night speech, we have to agree that Bill Clinton is much better than both Hillary and Obama. He did not cry about his personal struggles to let voters relate to him. He simply shot for the issues and gave people vision and hope. That I call leadership.

Bill Clinton is an example against the saying "American people at the end of the day have to look into the mirror, and they get the leader they deserve."
道由白云尽,春与青溪长。
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-28 12:18

Bill Clinton 也没你们想象得那么好,只不过后来的太恐怖了,对比之下才让你觉得好得不得了而已。那时候的 tech bubble 又是什么好事了?除了联邦财政理财理得好,他也没有直接促进过经济。而且,Bill Clinton 在外交外务方面政绩是满差的(南斯拉夫,索马里),还是跟后来者相比就显得英明神武了。现在这个烂摊子你再叫他上去管,他也收拾不了。当然,神仙来了也收拾不了这个烂摊子。

Bill Clinton 在他老婆竞选这个过程中表现出来的就是很糟糕的能力,很糟糕的judgment。我到现在还不能原谅他呢。他嘴皮子利索,不等于办事能力就比人强。
最后由 Jun 编辑于 2008-08-28 12:19,总共编辑了 1 次
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子camellia » 2008-08-28 12:19

Not just dot com, couple of hundred billion budget surplus is the proof that he made government more efficient. At the same time, he had tax cut for middle class.
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-28 12:22

TECH BUBBLE 对人民不是好事,对我们程序员儿是好事啊。 :mrgreen:

我最最最恨的就是,做为行政首长,你至少要尽力把预算弄平衡,不能开源就得节流不能节流就要开源,别成天嚷减税。 BILL 至少这一点而且是痛下决心做的,(参见BOB RUBIN 的回忆录)。他一上台就跟财政顾问团说:美国人民选我是为了平衡预算,我得把这做到。后来才会有经济发展。整个政府的财政健康才会带来整个国家的财政健康。OBAMA 也优先次序是对的.

BILL 有多懂货币政策?不见的。但是总统有最好的智囊团在身边,不需要特定知识,只需要理解能力。OBAMA 也有理解能力。
最后由 Knowing 编辑于 2008-08-28 12:34,总共编辑了 1 次
Nevertheless, she persisted.
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-28 12:29

I still believe that Hillary would have had a better campaign if she had had nothing to do with Bill Clinton and his buddies like Mark Penn. The recent feature report in Atlantic Monthly, which revealed the inner chaos in HRC's campaign from e-mail exchanges among her staffers, proves that Bill and Penn did more harm and caused more infighting than positive contribution. He can't help it. He just had to meddle in her campaign and screw things up. :speechless001:


做为行政首长,你至少要尽力把预算弄平衡,不能开源就得节流不能节流就要开源,别成天嚷减税。


It is a truth that American voters hate to listen to. If you tell them this, they will throw you out in the mud puddle. They can't even balance their paycheck. How do you expect them to support a leader who does?
最后由 Jun 编辑于 2008-08-28 12:31,总共编辑了 1 次
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子silkworm » 2008-08-28 12:30

Knowing 写道:Don't say that. Let's keep the hope alive.


Knowing is totally obamanized. :mrgreen:
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帖子笑嘻嘻 » 2008-08-28 12:40

人存有希望当然是好事。不能因为Obama 说 hope 说得多,支持奥巴马就是相信希望,不支持他就是不相信希望。奥巴马感觉不如克林顿有vision,更多政客的特点,所以渐渐的大家也有点迟疑。(为此我就觉得民主党成不了大气候!挑完这个挑那个。)选总统又不是选完人,要的是领导才干。我倒不觉得希拉里失势是比尔的错,我觉得主要是民主党的问题。为什么两个在最后竞选中占分量的大州不算选票?到底想不想赢选举?先觉得希拉里不行,现在又小心翼翼地觉得奥巴马也不够完美。

昨天将凯瑞讲话,挺明显他为什么输给布什。他到底在说些什么有人听吗?自说自话在夸奖自己还是在支持奥巴吗?听得人自动走神。还有一个什么人说了大家心里大实话:所有看奥林匹克的人都看到了中国一心向金牌冲刺。在美国的这种经济低谷里,群众需要一个领袖给他们信心,一起走出低谷。但是信心这个东西又娇气,一旦有怀疑就没那么有力量。
最后由 笑嘻嘻 编辑于 2008-08-28 12:46,总共编辑了 1 次
道由白云尽,春与青溪长。
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-28 12:41

I am. He is my only hope by this point. If he doesn't get elected I am moving back to China. I am not going to live in a stupid country where they are flushing their own currency down the toilet. that is pure robbery.
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-28 13:08

为什么两个在最后竞选中占分量的大州不算选票?到底想不想赢选举?


虽然我支持HRC,但是我也得说,FL 和MI 怎么算?没法算。除了HRC,其他人都把名字从 ballot 上面拿掉了,而且这两个州的民主党选民当时已经知道自己投票也没用,所以很多人根本没去选。事后又反悔了,怎么算?除非重新投票,还得重新campaign 么?形势都已经大变了。而且他们两个州自己也来不及重新组织一轮 primary 选举。如果当时其他候选人都参加了FL 和MI 的primary,如果没有一早就被取消资格,HRC 应该能在FL 拿到多数的delegates,但是MI 就不一定,而且跟timing 也有关系,不同的时间,当时仍参加选举的players 数目也不同,John Edwards 和其他候选人如果仍在其中,格局也有所不同,很难讲会怎样分天下。

我支持 Hillary,是因为她是个(相对的)偏左派,她的实际立场比Obama 更左更libral,虽然她不敢告诉民众这一点。但是,我很明白她在美国民众心目中的地位最多只是对半分,很多人害怕她,很多人讨厌她,很多人只是听到 Clinton 这个名字就掉头跑路。她虽然是白的,但是她在全国大选中的electability 未必强过 Obama。即使她得到民主党提名,跟McCain 相比也没有明显的优势。她的全民健康保险主张(是我支持她的最大因素)也是吓倒一大批美国人民的主要原因,他们觉得她是GCD,是法西斯,强迫自由的人民加入政府医疗。她的这个坚持立场也是对她不利的最大因素。

我是觉得,每个月九比林九比林地出血,人民再有信心再情绪高涨,再大跃进,一样流血而死。
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子silkworm » 2008-08-28 13:27

你们对Obama和McCain的健康保险改革计划有了解么?我很感兴趣,但还没细看过。

前几天在NPR听见一耳朵。说McCain要对目前雇主为雇员补助的保险金部分征税,然后每个人一年给2500刀,一家给5000刀---孩子多的还不恨死了。而且,这医药费用年年猛涨,很快这5000块也不值几个钱了。
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-28 13:37

Two articles in New England Journal of Medicine have explained the differences between the Obama and McCain health plans.


http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/359/8/777

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/8/781

Both articles are free on NEJM's Web site. Anyone can download a PDF file to read.

In my opinion, Obama's plan is still not as good as Clinton's. And I am skeptical about his commitment to health care reform and the national health care plan. I think there is a big chance that he would abandon or compromise it.

Click on the links below for a summary of:

McCain's plan:

图片

Obama's plan:

图片

Guess how many Americans are aware of these facts?
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-28 13:42

If American voters vote for McCain, they deserve to have ---

"Less comprehensive insurance policies" and "deregulation of insurance market."
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子nanping » 2008-08-28 13:45

麦金的政策是会变的吧,他早先还是环保积极分子,后来就offshore drilling了,总之不是向左变就是了。

哎,我觉得民主党真是没人,不是说奥巴马希拉里不好,就是希望他们能找个更保险点儿的人选,不管怎么说先把这仗停下来,早四年要不是凯利选,没准儿布希早就下台了,今年共和党够弱了吧,嘿,民主党搞得更悬,都不知道他们是怎么凑得。
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帖子豪情 » 2008-08-28 13:49

民主党是整个党都不行了, 你看国会搞的. 要是再上个民主党总统, 全部被他们把持, 挺悬.
MACCAIN这个PLAN看的我很郁闷.
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帖子silkworm » 2008-08-28 13:54

我和小K一样,有信心!
国会不能赖民主党,他们虽然是多数,也不过是很微弱的多数,总统还没事儿就veto,能办的事儿有限。
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-28 14:01

Legislation in the Senate has to pass by two thirds of majority to override the President's veto. Democrats do not have 2/3 majority, and all Republican Senators have been terrorized in the past 8 years by the Administration to never compromise and never cooperate with Democrats on anything at all. Lincoln Chaffee, previously a moderate Republican Senator, has detailed the disintegration of bipartisan cooperation in the hands of Rove, Cheney and co in his book. This is why nothing gets done in Congress --- because moderate Republicans have been completely whipped into lapdogs of the Administration.
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子nanping » 2008-08-28 14:07

对了,今年民主党大会,加州新窜出来的那个"John Who"---- 此人是因为硬扛着拒不执行阿诺州长的最低工资时薪令而一夜成名 ---- 终结者州长这一招真是心狠手辣,州预算不能通过,他就要挟着几千上万的州雇员陪绑,人家小老百姓可不象他,工资只是个摆设,最低时薪会出人命的 ---- Any way,我的问题是,我恍惚听说这个“John Who”是个gay?
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帖子tiffany » 2008-08-28 18:05

大家怎么在讨论这么depressing的问题啊。 :shock:

john kerry是唯一一个让我在听了他两句话之后就讨厌他讨厌到骨子里去的一个人。
自由早晚乱余生
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帖子笑嘻嘻 » 2008-08-28 19:07

tiffany 写道:大家怎么在讨论这么depressing的问题啊。 :shock:

Miserable want company?
道由白云尽,春与青溪长。
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帖子tiffany » 2008-08-28 20:01

你们还是说点儿胭脂花粉儿包包围巾耳环项链儿看得见摸不着的奢侈品吧,老子在尿片儿奶粉crying baby之间需要喘口气儿……
自由早晚乱余生
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帖子orangetabby » 2008-08-28 20:57

奥巴马的讲话还没完, 这人真是演讲天才. 虽然我不太喜欢他的相貌, 他的声音可真好.

我决定支持他了. 其实也没啥选择, 不选他, 难道选麦肯to take way woman's right to choose? :-P
性格决定命运, 基因决定性格. 所以请放心大胆的怨天怨地怨爹娘.
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-28 21:39

depressing 么?我觉的挺high的啊,总算要熬到头了。。。
Nevertheless, she persisted.
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帖子笑嘻嘻 » 2008-08-28 23:36

奥巴马今天的演讲真不错。
道由白云尽,春与青溪长。
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-29 7:39

恩,很有牛肉。
Nevertheless, she persisted.
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帖子silkworm » 2008-08-29 11:07

McCain选了VP了, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, a conservative who shares his maverick streak。

Yahoo网站上给了她的bio,我妈妈经地注意到,Palin今年44岁,4月份生了第5个孩子,孩子是唐氏儿(Palin has a strong anti-abortion record)。
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-29 11:10

Playing the gender card, aren't we?
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
Jun
 
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帖子silkworm » 2008-08-29 11:20

我诚恳地问问:你们几位支持希拉里的,会因为这个女性副总统候选人而支持McCain反对Obama么?
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-29 11:23

I almost thought he would definitely have picked Mitt Romney. Where did he find this extremely-conservative experienceless woman?

I am so much happier with the choice of Joe Biden now.

同丝虫问。。
最后由 Knowing 编辑于 2008-08-29 11:24,总共编辑了 1 次
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帖子putaopi » 2008-08-29 11:23

我有点儿想jump ship。不过,伊拉克的问题对我来说最重要。另外,我选希拉里不完全是因为她是女性,主要是她的能力和政见深得我心。
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-29 11:26

silkworm 写道:我诚恳地问问:你们几位支持希拉里的,会因为这个女性副总统候选人而支持McCain反对Obama么?


No f*cking way. If I were black, would I support Clarence Thomas?
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子豪情 » 2008-08-29 11:27

当然不会是个女的就选.

我会因为不信任OBAMA和现在的民主党投MACCAIN, 如果不是MACCAIN现在昏招太多.
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-29 11:41

I was just about to say she is the female version of CLARENCE THOMAS!

Before you vote for her because she is female, I want you to know the following facts:

1. She strongly opposed to abortion
2. She supports the teaching of creationism alongside evolution in schools.
3. She supported the 1998 Alaska State constitutional ban on gay marriage.

4. She is a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association
5. She fired a state official for refusing to fire her former brother-in-law (who is in a custody battle with her sister) from the state police.

6. She wants to drill in Alaska National Wildlife Refuge and drill our way out of the energy crisis.
Nevertheless, she persisted.
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帖子silkworm » 2008-08-29 11:43

小K,前天晚上看了几分钟电视,正好是Joe Biden的儿子Beau Biden介绍老爸上台,要不是白天你给讲了背景知识,我非得被感动得象Michelle Obama似的不可---她净跟那儿抹眼泪儿了。

不说笑话,Beau Biden说的,还是相当感人的。他爸爸刚选上参议员,生蛋节前去DC看办公室,他妈妈带着他们兄妹三人出去卖圣诞树,遭遇车祸。妈妈和妹妹去世,他和弟弟在医院里住了几个月。他爸爸有点想放弃参议院的职位,说“Delaware可以再选个人去做参议院,可我的儿子们只有我这个爸爸”。是肯尼迪等民主党大佬们劝说,他爸爸才肯继续,宣誓仪式是在两个儿子的病房里进行的。

单亲父亲做了五年,"We, my father, my brother and I, married Jill"。这一句,引得听众都乐了。
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帖子silkworm » 2008-08-29 11:45

drill in Alaska National Wildlife Refuge and drill our way out of the energy crisis.


唉,我真是“佩服”共和党,怎么总能想出这种完全不靠谱、但很蒙住“老百姓”的主意。
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帖子Jun » 2008-08-29 11:54

McCain is trying to appeal to die hard fundamentalist Christian conservative base.

Kiss your abortion rights good-bye.
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
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帖子Elysees » 2008-08-29 11:54

Knowing 写道:I was just about to say she is the female version of CLARENCE THOMAS!

Before you vote for her because she is female, I want you to know the following facts:

1. She strongly opposed to abortion
2. She supports the teaching of creationism alongside evolution in schools.
3. She supported the 1998 Alaska State constitutional ban on gay marriage.

4. She is a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association
5. She fired a state official for refusing to fire her former brother-in-law (who is in a custody battle with her sister) from the state police.

6. She wants to drill in Alaska National Wildlife Refuge and drill our way out of the energy crisis.


小k懂得真多,你应该搬DC去住 :-P :-P
可惜我不能投票,不然看到第一条我就不会再看她了~~
我有个前同事(住在密歇根)说起预选就很愤怒,说他的票不count;我问他支持谁,他说民主党谁都行,如果共和党再当选他就去加拿大,再不住美国了。
最后由 Elysees 编辑于 2008-08-29 11:57,总共编辑了 1 次
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-29 11:55

OFFSHORE DRILLING 可以在短期内影响一点价格,让市场上做多的SPECULATOR 惊恐两三天,下一个消息来了大家又马上忘了这个岔了,长期P 用没有。如果你象天真的美国人民一样相信市场完全是被做多的SPECULATOR控制着,那才会相信DRILL 那一丁点油真能有长期作用。
我们大老板最爱说的冷笑话之一--惨就惨在这不是笑话:政客老说油价高是对冲基金SPECULATOR操纵市场,什么时候才有人告诉他们,做成一个买卖得有买方和卖方。
Nevertheless, she persisted.
Knowing
 
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帖子Knowing » 2008-08-29 11:59

我这把年纪,需要堕胎权利的机会已经不大了。到是如果他们当选,应该赶紧趁ALASKA 没被他们钻的千创百孔之前赶紧去玩一趟。

BEAU BIDEN 很可爱啊。JILL BIDEN 样子也不错,打扮的时髦漂亮大方,而且是高学历事业和家庭兼顾的大学教授年轻祖母, 不象CINDY MCCAIN 那样典型儿上东区脸皮僵硬花瓶儿一个。
最后由 Knowing 编辑于 2008-08-29 12:06,总共编辑了 1 次
Nevertheless, she persisted.
Knowing
 
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注册: 2003-11-22 20:37

帖子Jun » 2008-08-29 12:06

Sweetheart, abortion rights are never just about abortion. The abortion rights issue is always intimately connected with women's rights, including the right to see a physician who is willing to prescribe birth control pills, the right to fill birth control pills at your pharmacy, to get insurance companies to cover birth control pills, to buy morning after pill at your local pharmacy, to win government contract as a woman small business owner, to win child care assistance and benefits as a working mother, to give children more than abstinence-only education, to protect women's rights NOT to be fired when they are pregnant, etc., etc., etc. They are all bundled together.

You can bet on it that any politician who is against abortion is also against child welfare, family and social services, healthcare assistance, mandating family leave policies, and protecting all kinds of women's rights for working women.
最后由 Jun 编辑于 2008-08-29 12:15,总共编辑了 1 次
Wonderful things can happen when you sew the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.
--- Raylanism per Elmore Leonard via "Justified"
Jun
 
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帖子Elysees » 2008-08-29 12:08

我最近听那个Freakonomics不是说合法堕胎法案的通过十数年后使得犯罪率降低嘛,可见生活里环环相扣啊。
我自横刀向天笑,笑完我就去睡觉。
Elysees
 
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帖子nanping » 2008-08-29 12:10

Knowing 写道:I was just about to say she is the female version of CLARENCE THOMAS!

Before you vote for her because she is female, I want you to know the following facts:

1. She strongly opposed to abortion
2. She supports the teaching of creationism alongside evolution in schools.
3. She supported the 1998 Alaska State constitutional ban on gay marriage.

4. She is a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association
5. She fired a state official for refusing to fire her former brother-in-law (who is in a custody battle with her sister) from the state police.

6. She wants to drill in Alaska National Wildlife Refuge and drill our way out of the energy crisis.


Jun 写道:McCain is trying to appeal to die hard fundamentalist Christian conservative base.


这也是我的第一印象,之前他在共和党内不是挺招人恨吗,只伊战一条他在很多民主党选民里就不可能了,不如巩固base,当初小布希不就是这一招?共和党有很多one issue voter,and this woman can satisfy them all, amazing!

妇女选票可能倒是次要,即使算上希拉里的死忠fans,小奥帅哥也不缺妇女选票,麦金这个副总统候选人倒可能吓走一些希拉里的支持者呢,他大概是想平衡一下他那个暮气沉沉的形象跟小帅哥之间的的巨大落差吧。

Jun 写道:Kiss your abortion rights good-bye.


这个还不一定哦 8)
nanping
 
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帖子笑嘻嘻 » 2008-08-29 15:52

我现在举棋不定不能抉择是美国大选好看还是奥运会好看。 :mrgreen: 好在俩我都赶上了,虽然俩都没我什么事儿。 :mrgreen:

McCain 这招不错。奥巴马刚开始的时候风头一时无两,当时大家所有的讨论都是围绕奥巴马跟其他几个人没什么事儿,但是到现在也差不多三鼓而衰,大家注意力渐渐分散的时候,麦肯用这个副总统一下把注意力全部都吸引过去了。麦肯这个副总统选票未必能拉得动希拉里的支持者,但可能囊括比希拉里更多的妇女选票。
道由白云尽,春与青溪长。
笑嘻嘻
 
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帖子stareye » 2008-08-29 21:13

好象此人也曾是选美皇后,看来老麦就好这一口, 似乎他的前后妻至少有一个是选美皇后出身。
:speechless001:
stareye
 
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注册: 2003-12-09 7:50

帖子狸狸 » 2008-08-31 3:57

被这个州长吓坏了,明知道孩子是唐氏综合症还生出来?还是所谓事先检测出来也只是一个概率,她冒险失败而已?
我说人家怎么生5个孩子还当到州长,原来真的天赋异秉,生完孩子第3天就去上班 :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:
Perhaps we grows very strong, stronger than Wraiths.
Lord Smeagol? Gollum the Great? The Gollum!
Eat fish every day, three times a day, fresh from the sea.
狸狸
 
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